The South Shore Line

The Tribune reported on Monday that state Sen. Kwame Raoul has introduced legislation "that would require commuter rail trains to stop and allow passengers to board and exit at all commuter rail stations."  The legislation is backed by Southsiders Organized for Unity and Liberation (SOUL), the group advocating forcefully for the Gold Line.

Raoul acknowledged that the current bill would have the unintended effect of halting Metra's express trains, but that the object was to prod Metra and the South Shore Line to fix a rather annoying issue.  As most Hyde Parkers know, the South Shore Line does not allow us to board inbound trains at the Metra stations it serves-- Kensington, 63rd, 57th, McCormick, Museum Campus, Van Buren and Randolph.  Nor can passengers disembark at those stations.  The reason:

"Metra doesn't want the South Shore to pick up what would normally be their fares," said Gerald Hanas, general manager of the Northern Indiana Commuter Transportation District, which operates the South Shore.

Is that really so hard to solve?  Metra and South Shore couldn't just estimate the boarders and reach an agreement to split the fares somehow?  And wouldn't it be a slightly larger pot of money than Metra currently gets due to the attractiveness of more frequent service?

The Shore Line schedule promises 18 inbound trains stopping at 57th Street each day.  Six of those come during the morning rush hours between 6 and 9am-- in all cases within 5 minutes of an inbound Metra train.  There's some utility to that for Hyde Parkers.  The morning and afternoon Shore Lines might get fewer riders, but they do much more to fill in service gaps.  Here are both agencies' 57th Street inbound trains from 9am until 5pm, with Shore Line's (.pdf) in parentheses:

9:12  (9:29)  9:43  9:53  (9:54)  10:42  (10:58)  11:42  11:53  (12:25)  12:42  (1:07)  1:42  1:53  (2:11)  2:42  3:42  3:53  (4:03)  4:42. 

It seems like a reasonable fare-splitting agreement might be win-win-win.

Comments

[Eric]

The whole thing sounded a bit ridiculous to me, but your combined timetable makes a strong case. It would be nice to have some of those very long midday gaps filled.

[CTA Gray Line Project]

I see that MY idea: bit.ly/CTAGrayLine has been taken, renamed (Gold Line), and is now being very badly mis-used. Well, I am going to effin' take it back. There are going to be fireworks at the South Corridor Study Meetings. Some of these people know NOTHING about railroad operations; or the reason things operate in the format that they do; and believe me - I WILL GET THIS CRAP STRAIGHTENED OUT. I created, and have been working on the CTA Gray Line since 1996; it is included in CMAP's Regional Transportation Plan ( and it is the ONLY project in the plan submitted by a private individual rather than a transit operator, or municipality ), all these other folks are Johnny-come-VERY-lately.

CTA Gray Line service would provide Gray Line CTA service trains on the in-city Electric District infrastructure at no less than 10 minute intervals, so it would be unnecessary for Metra or South Shore trains to carry any South Side in-city passengers at all.

If anyone has any questions about CTA Gray Line operations, costs, rolling stock and infrastructure, fare collection, related Metra and South Shore operations, and/or any other questions; PLEASE CONTACT ME at: grayline15@yahoo.com , as NOBODY ELSE is in any way qualified to answer any questions about it.

Mike Payne
CTA Gray Line Project
Grayline.20m.com

[withrow]

Mike, years ago when we were meeting every so often, I asked you whether you were comfortable with my using the term Gray Line Lite for the plan that's similar to yours. My memory is that you were fine with that, so I've tried, when appropriate, to give you credit for your work on this idea- out of respect for you.

You have two choices, as I see it, and I'm absolutely willing to cooperate with either choice. I can credit you with coming up with a similar idea first and I can tell people how much work you've put into this-- that's what I've done at the beginning of the main Gold Line article. Or, if you believe this proposal is so different from yours that you don't want to be associated with it, I can erase your name from the article. But I can't do both.

And you can't patent "south lakeshore passenger rail improvement" with the idea of having the field to yourself. Other people have the right to advocate for competing proposals. That's the political process.

Individual advocates have varying levels of expertise with railroad operations. Some people know a lot; some just know that they want the service. But the Gold Line plan as presented in the main article has been vetted by transportation professionals and planning experts.

You deserve credit for advocating for improved rail service in our neighborhoods, but I let's not belittle others just because we have reasonable disagreements with them. The important thing is that the Southeast Corridor Study Meetings should lead toward improvements that benefit all of us. That's what matters.

[Otto]

"The legislation is backed by Southsiders Organized for Unity and Liberation (SOUL), the group advocating forcefully for the Gold Line."

Forcefully? They're not even maintaining their site, which still advances this compelling argument:

"The Metra Electric serves many proposed Olympic venues (Soldier Field, Northerly Island, McCormick Place, Jackson Park) plus the Olympic Village. The Gold Line will allow visitors to get to Olympics sites during the Olympics, enable workers from the Southside to commute to Olympics sites as they are being built, and continue to be useful to Southside residents after the Olympics conclude."

[J3ll0]

You left out the 9:42, 10:43 etc. --the list should be.

9:12 (9:29) 9:42 9:43 9:53 (9:54) 10:42 10:43 (10:58) 11:42 11:43 11:53 (12:25) 12:42 12:43 (1:07) 1:42 1:43 1:53 (2:11) 2:42 2:43 3:42 3:43 3:53 (4:03) 4:42 4:43.

The trains are
:53 -- Blue Island only runs at 9, 11, 1 and 3.
:42 -- University Park
:43 -- South Chicago

You can pretty much generate a better schedule than this ad hoc merging of two systems by just having metra move the Blue Island so it comes in at :20 every other hour.

Raoul's proposal is a bit foolish--all it would really accomplish is slowing down already empty trains. And the unintended consequence would be metra would cut their rush hour runs by about 1/3 as everything would be a "local".

[CTA Gray Line Project]

Jim> "Mike, years ago when we were meeting every so often, I asked you whether you were comfortable with my using the term Gray Line Lite for the plan that's similar to yours. My memory is that you were fine with that, so I've tried, when appropriate, to give you credit for your work on this idea- out of respect for you".

Mike>> You are correct Jim, and I must apologize, and admit to over-reacting. It really is not about the name change or any other issues, and you most certainly have always given me MUCH credit.

My BIG problem was and is with the implication that the South Shore Line (and Metra) are practicing racial discrimination with their fare and boarding policies; I had never heard anyone state this before. AND IT IS NOT TRUE, THEY ARE NOT

These policies have been in place for I believe over 100 yrs from a time when the South Side was ALL White people; and inbound South Shore Line electric trains were hauled downtown from Kensington/115th hooked to the rear of steam locomotive drawn I.C. suburban trains long before the 1926 electrification.

And all those White people in 1910 couldn't board inbound South Shore Line trains either.

The South Sides demographics have changed drastically since 1910, and South Shore's policy existed long before those changes; not in response to them - which is what is implied (like as if they had started this policy only after the area turned mostly Black - THEY DIDN'T).

Jim> "You have two choices, as I see it, and I'm absolutely willing to cooperate with either choice. I can credit you with coming up with a similar idea first and I can tell people how much work you've put into this-- that's what I've done at the beginning of the main Gold Line article. Or, if you believe this proposal is so different from yours that you don't want to be associated with it, I can erase your name from the article. But I can't do both".

Mike>> We should discuss it; if that statement about the South Shore Line is now part of your organizational policy, I would want any reference to me to be removed. (and IMHO that statement is going to cause you nothing but problems).

Jim> "And you can't patent "south lakeshore passenger rail improvement" with the idea of having the field to yourself. Other people have the right to advocate for competing proposals. That's the political process.

Individual advocates have varying levels of expertise with railroad operations. Some people know a lot; some just know that they want the service. But the Gold Line plan as presented in the main article has been vetted by transportation professionals and planning experts.

You deserve credit for advocating for improved rail service in our neighborhoods, but I let's not belittle others just because we have reasonable disagreements with them. The important thing is that the Southeast Corridor Study Meetings should lead toward improvements that benefit all of us. That's what matters".

Mike>> Again, I apologize for over-reacting; and you are correct; I have no patent (I specifically placed the Gray Line Project in the public domain claiming no rights). And I hope we can all work together at the South Corridor meetings.

But I still feel the thing about the South Shore discriminating is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

contact me at: grayline15@yahoo.com

[withrow]

Mike, I worked with SOUL briefly on the Gold Line project, but we turned out not to be a good fit for each other. So, we've been working toward the that goal independently. Note that I didn't repeat the racial discrimination argument concerning the Metra/South Shore Line integration issue. I'm not part of the SOUL organization.

J3ll0, I knew about the other trains you cited, but thought it cluttered up the point I was trying to make. My argument was about how the Shore Line trains would fill daytime gaps of service, but your argument that Metra could help with that by changing the Blue Island times is correct and occurred to me. I just left it out because I was trying to focus.

Otto, SOUL's web presence is a tiny part of their advocacy efforts. The Southeast Corridor Study is coming about because they put the Gold Line idea in front of transportation professionals and then got politicians to come on board.

[CTA Gray Line Project]

I certainly hope we can all work together this year in reaching our common goal, and I feel I should explain my recent extreme reactions.

I built operating HO South Shore models that picked up power from the overhead in 1960 when I was 10 years old; even then it was my favorite (and now it's the last) US interurban. They had six axle parlor cars. I rode out many, many times at 10 to take pix and movies on 11th St. in Michigan city.

Disparaging the South Shore was like attacking my left ventricle.

Again, please all accept my apologies.

[withrow]

Apology accepted. I guess neither of us could stay mad very long at someone who's just trying to help transit, could we?